Abandoned Forum

[hamster]

Why is it that the one thing separating us, biologically at least, from the beasts, our highly evolved brain,

has of late become a subject of ridicule?

Why is it that our society savagely mocks smart people and treats love of learning as the epitome of "uncool?"

How is it that the greatest opportunity ever developed in the history of humanity to further expand our knowledge, i.e., free, public school, has been so badly messed up that for most kids, it's a 12 year torture chamber, a joke, and the beginnning of a life-long disgust for learning anything other than sports stats and the basics of your daily job?

Is it possible to dream of a world where kids retain their initial excitement about learning, where deliberate ignorance is no longer celebrated, where the mention of history, geography and literature, and maybe, just maybe, even math doesn't get their eyes rolling violently?

And is it possible to make it a reality?

And is that too many questions for one post?

[Pimienta]

I think people just ridicule because they aren't smart themselves
or maybe since so many people do it, they don't even have a reason besides "jump on the band wagon"

[hamster]

I think people just ridicule because they aren't smart themselves
or maybe since so many people do it, they don't even have a reason besides "jump on the band wagon"

Could be.

I love being in the company of people who are smarter than I am -- provided they aren't snooty about it. I just inhale their knowledge and go away with my head happily spinning.

[nil]

When people spend all their time in fear and insecurity, they don't have any free time left to utilize their brains.

[Insanity test]

Sometimes societies get polarised. For some set of reasons like a combination of adverts remembered, certain ways of thinking being slotted into an image, an idea that you can only belong to one group etc, people tend to either go radically for one choice or the other.

So in school you get the 'teacher's pets' or 'geeks' who have chosen to either obey a strict authourity figure eg. parents or have decided that they actually want to improve themselves, or you get the cool people/bullies/whatever they manifest themselves as, who see the dictum that they must do as they are told as oppression and seek to undermine it, or aspire to be like a person who is a role model to them who might not have liked school much themselves.

Of course these are just a few examples, there are infinate reasons for the way people choose to lead their lives, but in certain situations like school the divide seems to be built into the system. It could be down to the simple lack of choice in the fact of going to school itself. The students seek a choice that they are in control of. Some choose to learn despite orders/popular thinking/lack of immediate freedom, while others make their choice not to learn.

In this light maybe it is the school system which is at fault. The mandatory attendance robs children of their ultimate freedom they enjoyed at home and they now have to do what they are told.

But School is good for you. Civilisation would not have reached the state it has were people not given the opertrunity to learn.

Therefore it is the preconceptions we have about learning which are at fault. From a very early age we are bombarded with the sterotypes hamster mentioned, the resentment of those who chose not to learn of those who did and vice versa. Even before we reach a school we expect to fall into one of these catagories - before we have all the facts we are already deciding which group we will belong to.

What is needed it a radical change not just of the school system or even how it is seen, but a change of our entire culture.

Companies advertise to a certain sterotyped group or other, entertainments like kids TV show the groups in all their glory and often glamorise them. Our parents and older siblings will have been in one of these groups and will affect which we join. The schools themselves don't help, by offering narrow feilded clubs to join, specifically taylored to a certain group.

I myself am British, and i think there are subtle differences in the situation. One of my friends recently did an exchange to America and was surprised at how polar it seemed compared to where we are. You either worked all the time and were extremely driven, or never worked. But then I am in a music school, everyone has a similar goal and our course is practically rather than academically driven. I imagine it would be different in a medical college or other, larger university. Plus I have never visited America myself, I only go by what I've been told, but I can see it in the TV shows etc. In Britain the schools are much the same - there are those who work and are nerdy or those who don't and are popular. But I believe the way forward is a more balanced approach to life.

Everyone should be seen as a wholly rounded person. Even the most closed minded bully will have an aptitude for something, whether it is evident or not. Just because someone is intelligent, it doesn't mean that they're automatically crap at sports. If you are a sports-person, take an interest in other subjects aswell. If you are a mathamatition, get out there and socalise with the others.

Of course it's all easier said than done. The groups will currently not allow one person to cross over without facing some form of ridicule or resentment. This is the curse of the self sustaining system. But if you treat someone else how you wish to be treated, maybe, just maybe, they'll recipricate.

[nowhere man]

The world is a sad and miserable place. Stupidity is a good way to be happy dispite that. So in that respect, stupid people are supeior to smart people.

[nil]

Higher intelligence seldom translate to better survival. Cockroaches and other insects had next to no intelligence and they survive much better than mankind.

[Pimienta]

about insanity tests post

I really agree with everything

except

the last line

the Golden Rule which we are taught at a very young age
it's drilled into us and we still don't listen to it
but what if I were a person who didn't like to be acknowleged for everything and another person is the type of person who does
am I supposed to treat that person according to my preferences?

[Insanity test]

In the way that they treat you, they should discover your preferences. You should not be offended if someone else doesn't recognise all your attributes, because as you say they might not expect that of others. But equally if you dont want all your attributes recognised, it shouldn't stop you from appriciating others'. If they mention a subject you are touchy on, they should see by your reaction that this is so and react accordiongly. If they don't see, tell them politely.

If you feel you aren't being recognised, you could find a more public forum in which to display your talent, or you could just be nice and honest about theirs. The flow of the conversation might cause them to realise your potential.

I meant it in a more general way, refferring to teasing etc. Don't treat others badly unless you yourself want the same treatment. We must all empathise with our fellow human beings.

Anyway, I've probably racked up to my 2000th cent so far, so i'll shut up for a bit!

[nowhere man]

Shutting up will not be tolerated. Please give all the cents you have.

[Pimienta]

Thank you for your cents

that is the best answer to what I have said yet
and I have asked many knowlegeable people about it

[Insanity test]

Thankyou, it's basically just my outlook on life. I don't mean to tell people how to live, but rather offer a perspective they might not have considered.

[hamster]

That is a brilliant question!

It's very interesting that the Jewish wise man Hillel, before the time of Christ, stated, "What you do not wish done to yourself, do not do to others." Later, Jesus altered the words to say, as we know, "Do unto others as you'd have done to you."

The difference between the two statements is exactly what Pimienta brought up.

about insanity tests post

I really agree with everything

except

the last line

the Golden Rule which we are taught at a very young age
it's drilled into us and we still don't listen to it
but what if I were a person who didn't like to be acknowleged for everything and another person is the type of person who does
am I supposed to treat that person according to my preferences?

[nowhere man]

yeah. Because if your a suicidal, and you want someone to kill you, maybe it wouldn't be the best thing to follow the golden rule. Bet then again, if everyone followed the golden rule, maybe there would'nt be any reason for a person to be suicidal.

[Twin2]

Fortunately for some of being a geek and a "jock"- sports person is a good thing . Our state does a "Dairy Farmers Award' for schools that have teams who have a 3.0 or above and are involved in school activities. The teams vie for having the highest grade point. a 4.0 is straight A's and a 3.0 is a B. Most of our athletes are B or above students and members of the Band or past band members, for some reason most of them have a averages. In fact several of the members here are Dairy Farmer award members. And they are athletes and Band geeks too!! Being a geek is cool.